Obi Wan Kenobi vs Darth Vader: Saturn vs Pluto
Here is the question that Iris asked on this site: Could you say a bit about how you would distinguish the cutting away of the unnecessary by Saturn from the letting go of the unnecessary by Pluto? How might they feel different?
Iris is right: both of these planets bring loss and even death. Saturn is personified sometimes as the Grim Reaper himself and Pluto is indeed Lord of the Underworld, King of Hell. But although they both bring about endings, the quality of the energy is quite different.
If a person comes into your life under a Saturn transit, he is likely to be a wise, older person, a counsellor, a parent figure, a teacher, even an astrologer; he may be cold and old and settled in his ways, but he is unlikely to wish to harm you as long as you play by his rules (although his rules can be stifling). His main rule is work at it. A Saturn transit well-handled can be profoundly satisfying.
If a Pluto person comes into your life, she may be a sadist, emotionally or even physically; violent, cruel, irrational; brutally honest. Pluto might want to hurt you or use you. Sometimes, you just don’t know what Pluto wants because the game she plays is far bigger than you can imagine. Mainly Pluto wants you to see the truth however difficult. A Pluto transit well-handled can be exhilarating, cleansing but almost never without some pain.
So you can see already how the energy is not the same.
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| Saturn |
Saturn is earthy, practical and real. The key words for Saturn transits are duty, responsibility and work. When the planet transits points in your natal chart, you are asked to take responsibility for certain parts of your character or of your life. If you grab that responsibility, you are rewarded. For example, when Saturn crosses your MC, you are just as likely to gain responsibility at work through a promotion, as you are to lose your job.
With Saturn transits you are often given a choice: stay or go, break or build, embrace your responsibility or run away from it. You reap the consequences – often surprisingly quickly but sometimes over a lifetime.
Saturn transits are not as bad as they are painted. But you have to be willing to do your duty.
Let me give you a clear example from my own life. When my first child was born Saturn was on my Moon, which is the planet of motherhood, and also your own inner child. Now if you read the textbooks, they’ll tell you that transit is about depression or feeling lonely or emotional loss.
In fact, it was about my becoming a mother. The child in me became a mother in that moment – and because I was ready, my experience was euphoric and joyful. I stepped into motherhood wholeheartedly and grabbed the responsibility that was offered. Saturn rewarded me handsomely. This was a harvest. I had waited a long time (Saturn) to have children and the time was ripe.
Saturn likes patience.
Sometimes it is hard to sort out transits anyway. For example, the 1950s Saturn in Libra lot had Pluto transiting Saturn on their last Saturn Return, so how can they really be sure what is Saturn and what is Pluto?
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| Pluto |
Pluto does not give you a choice. You are often forced to act and if you don’t act, someone will do it for you – often brutally. Pluto transforms you. Saturn helps you build or destroy yourself, the choice is yours. With Saturn your circumstances may change, with Pluto your soul may change.
Pluto is more ruthless than Saturn. Because he is so far out in the Solar system, he is even more impersonal. A Pluto transit can feel like a deus ex machina has just walked into your life and skewered you with his light sabre.
Something ugly or inconvenient is often revealed. Secrets and lies come out. Pluto deals with the truth but often seems to take a bitter pleasure in the more unpleasant truths. For example, the scandal of paedophilia in the Church came out under Pluto’s transit of Sagittarius (organised religion).
My last big Pluto transit was an opposition to my Moon. My grandmother died and my relationship with my mother was changed as a consequence. A veil was torn away and I suddenly saw things much more clearly. It wasn’t nice, and I don’t think I handled it as well as I should.
For a good Pluto transit I give you my friend L, who had Pluto squaring her Sun about 10 years ago now. She’s an astrologer and so she booked herself in for deep healing of a very intense sort. She knew she would be transformed somehow so she went the whole hog. She looks back at that transit with gratitude, a time when she really understood herself (Sun) very deeply.
I could actually write a book, but I hope that gives you a feel for the difference.
Having recently gone through transiting Pluto conjunct my natal Sun, I really enjoyed this post. Saturn energy still connects to/builds ego and persona;Pluto doesn’t play by those rules at all. Over the past few years, I have come to envision Pluto as Baba Yaga, that mythic dark figure in Eastern European folklore. As Robert Bly points out, Baba Yaga rips apart the hero while saying, “Nothing personal, you understand.”
This is fantastic, thank you so much. I have them opp each other in a grand cross so just about any transit sets off the grim tango and it’s hard to know what’s what. I’d just like to second the book idea…
Pluto has been transiting my Saturn! My problems with authority (& the lengths I’ll go to for approval) have been brought home to me in a series of rather unpleasant (but if you’re into the satisfaction of uncovering secrets) kind-a sort-a exhilirating ways. I feel much more grown up now…but I am still on my guard.
The last few years have had Pluto conjunct my natal Saturn, and now opposite my midheaven, where my natal Mercury in Cancer is. It has felt like a seemingly endless slog through confronting realities I had hoped would just go away. But at the same time, I’ve changed my life quite radically in terms of claiming my freedom and letting go of over-serving false parental figures in my work life and letting go of unnecessary “friends.” I’ve changed my self-care routines, lost fifty pounds, adjusted my wardrobe to express myself better, entered a writing MFA, gotten a piece published in the New York Times. My money routines are clearer, less vagueness, so I’ve been able to travel more. It’s kind of amazing — thinking about Saturn and Pluto transits, which feel so hard for so long. Yet when I look back, it’s amazing how it’s been changing things that I wanted to change but I just wanted the process to feel easier. In a way, what’s happened is that at midlife, I’ve gone through a more fundamental growing up process, difficult but ultimately rewarding.
@mary – good point about Saturn building persona.
Baba Yaga terrified me as a child. I’m glad you reminded me of her, she is such a powerful archetype, sort of an anti-mother.
@Iris – thanks for the prompt and glad I could help
@Anon – Saturn in Capricorn, eh? Must have been pretty unnerving though.
when my first child was born, pluto was exactly on my moon ( sag 18 degrees) which is opposite saturn (gemini 18 degrees). I get along well with my son although it is intense. but unfortunately it cemented a relationship with my mother in law permanently and which was far worse than the relationship with my own mother which could be unpleasant at times
How would this manifest itself with an opposition? Would Pluto bust apart the Saturn restrictions, or would Saturn ‘tame’ and hold Plutonian energy? (I’m thinking the 60’s children with the uranus/pluto conjunction opposition saturn).
@anon – it’s interesting to see how the layers of meaning work for the Moon – which turned out to be you as a mother, your mother and your mother-in-law.
@julie – there’s one example for you in anon’s comment.
The thing about Pluto is that it either busting open OR blocking. Somewhere on here recently I wrote about how astrology works in polarities, (I was talking about Uranus there) so you always have to take into account both ends. In the case of Pluto it’s like a drain (sort of) either blocked or a sucking maw.
OK – Uranus/Pluto – I have written about them somewhere on the blog so it’s worth doing a search.
Actually I think many of this generation have been very blocked. You can see how a combination of Saturn-Pluto could do that. Both can be constipating. The Uranus Return that they have just experienced may have been something of an unblocking. I’d be interested to hear. Quite a few world leaders now have this combo.
We should remember that 1989 (the fall of the Berlin Wall) was the Occupy moment for many of them (who would have been in their 20s).
Walls came tumbling down – Saturn, Neptune (hope) and Uranus conjunct in earthy Capricorn – sextiled by Pluto from Scorpio. So Pluto had moved to a nice angle and the walls came down so easily. (Not in China, of course, which is worth remembering. Things can go either way.)
I am just in the middle of a post that touches tangentially on this generation in fact.
Such a rich post. I’ll be mulling it for awhile. It does clear up a few lingering questions while opening up several more.
In short, I, too, loudly second the book idea! 🙂
When Saturn touched my Pluto, my mother died. Now Pluto’s approaching conjunction with my Saturn and I’m worrying about my Dad.
I’m going to start befriending Saturn with the Obi Wan Kenobi image now, thanks 🙂
I had transiting Pluto opposite my Moon, and transiting Saturn (in the 8th) square to it in 1993. At the time my Grandma was dying of lung cancer and I was nursing her at my mother’s house whilst pregnant. She died a month before my son was born.
@louise – woah! Transformation…
I’ll take a Saturn transit over Pluto anyday!
I had Saturn conjunct my Sun, and Uranus opposite, when I met my bf 3 years ago. He is much older, and unusual! Interestingly, it’s a very committed relationship, but we don’t live together and possibly never will. I also had Pluto transiting trine my natal Venus/Pluto, so a rather nicer Pluto energy there.
Last Pluto transit I remember clearly was conjunct my IC. Hellious. I’m happy to have Pluto in a long sextile/trine to my IC/MC these days.
thank you so much for this post. I love reading your real life examples of situations that occurred during transits. This really helps it ‘Click in’ for me.
Very nice description. I have Pluto conjuct sun, conjuct mars in my natal chart. And today Saturn transit over my sun and mars. An it is very building. Bt that saturn transit is easy for my becouse i am over changer a i preapared for this saturn transit.
Very interesting comments.
Saturn is sometimes called the “king maker” because it gives you responsibility and convention. How you respond to that is your choice. Saturn seems to give us rites of passage and these often come with its returns, half returns etc. Saturn reminds us of the limits of time. Am I right in thinking Saturn also rules the skeletal structure? it definitely is the planet of structure and at its poles we see a beautiful hexagonal storm! Our carbon based life is based on an atom with a hexagonal structure – so Saturn is to me like a diamond cutter, taking rough diamonds and cutting them into shape to reflect the inner light – like the Hermit with his self illuminating light.
Pluto I believe to be chaotic by comparison and more representing of soul issues but also primal issues of human life.
I have Pluto Mars Sun Venus Moon Jupter conjunct in tight orb and some years ago endured a Saturn/PLuto square and opposition to the whole lot. It was debilitating to put it mildly. I was lucky to have a consultation with the Queen of Darkness, Liz Green at the onset of the transit and her stark advice was to have Jungian analysis. Which I did for 4 years. I spent much of that time as a recluse; my outer world changed unrecognisably, the inner landscape opened up infinitely.
For anyone having those transits, I’d say this is your huge opportunity – although at the time it felt like hell on earth. Funnily, as the transit came to an end I had a dream Darth Vader arrived at my front door in full menacing terror. However, I frog marched him into my kitchen told him to shut up, sit down and tell me exactly why he was there. Reply? He just wanted to hang out with me…
IMO where as Saturn reminds us of our limitations, need for structure, responsibility and duty, Pluto invited us to have at least, dialogue with the shadow. At best a chance to integrate it.
What an amazingly powerful dream!